Captain America: The Winter Soldier Thread

[Wandering Sensei: Moderator Man]

Saw this today and I loved it.

Anyone else?

Please know that you should expect MAJOR SPOILERS in this thread...

[ClarkKent_DC]

One more thing that nobody's brought up, not even me: The post-credits sequences. The second one featured Bucky at that Captain America display at the Smithsonian, portending a future story where he goes to find himself.

But the first one seemed to tease the next Avengers movie. It showed Baron Strucker gloating over The Tesseract (which, I guess, sounds cooler than "the Cosmic Cube"), and looking in on his charges, clearly a captive Wanda and Pietro.

Aren't they X-Men characters? As in, wouldn't Fox's deal to make X-Men movies prevent Marvel from including them in Marvel movies? (Along that vein, I understand Sony is planning to make a movie after Amazing Spider-Man 2 featuring the Sinister Six, just to solidify its rights to Marvel characters.)

On the other hand, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch do have a long history with the Avengers, so maybe that's the loophole that gets them into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. 

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

It's my understanding that they'll appear in both the Avengers and X-Men movies; presumably Marvel and Fox worked something out in that regard, rather than go into arbitration over them. 

From what it looks like, their mutant origins don't remain intact for the MCU, and instead are twins changed by experiments with the Tesseract. 

[Mark S. Ogilvie]

"Cosmic Cube" sounds better than "Tesseract" and is easier to spell anyway :)

[Philip Portelli]

I saw it today and was very impressed. So here are my thoughts:

• I enjoyed Chris Evans' performance. His fight scenes were impressive and his determination and, more importantly, his morality were extremely Cap-like.
• This might be heresy but they should ditch the mask/helmet or else redesign it. It takes me out of the picture every time he wears it.
• This was also Scarlett Johanssen's best outing in a Marvel film. I still don't believe she's Russian but I do believe in the complexity of her character. Not to mention she's sexy as hell!
• Best addition: the Falcon. Good-natured, brave and heroic, he never felt forced on or unnecessary to the movie. (Not like some movie heroes that I won't mention! BATGIRL!)
• If he appears in the next Avengers film, I hope his flightsuit is more colorful. And I did miss Redwing!
• Did anyone else have to explain to someone younger just who Robert Redford is?
• The Civil War of SHIELD deserved its own movie.
• But, yeah, it's a game-changer for Agents of SHIELD!
• It was hard to recognize Emily VanCamp because she was smiling! (see Revenge)
• I do like her as Sharon/Agent 13. But will they link her with the now-elderly Peggy?
• I don't know about the rest of you but I don't want to be on the road when these guys are driving!
• Best Line: Cap in the SHIELD elevator: "Before we get started, do any of you want to get off?"
• Now the major problem of the film: Why doesn't Cap or Natasha call Tony Stark? Or Hawkeye? Clint's a SHIELD agent, too. Where IS Bruce Banner? That's the dilemma when you have a connected universe: Where is everyone?
• Missed the Crossbones reference but was glad that the Red Skull wasn't there, despite always enjoying Hugo Weaving's contributions.
• Perked up when they mentioned Steven Strange! By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth!
• Glad to see Baron Strucker. I hope that he still has a history with Nick Fury.
• Will Wanda and Pietro still be mutants? Or are they not allowed to be?

But now I'm more anxious for Captain America III* than Avengers II. For now, anyway.

*Still want another WWII adventure!

[Wandering Sensei: Moderator Man]

This definitely stepped everything up a notch. A good friend of mine saw it on the premier night a week ago, and I asked him if it was better than The Avengers. He said, "It was better than watching The Avengers a second time." I have to agree. This movie was definitely in second place in the Marvel Cinematic world. As a guy who really loves Iron Man and Iron Man III, this was tough, but I still hold that it's true.

[Captain Comics]

Movie: Awesome.

TV follow-up: Double awesome.

I have nothing further, until I stop hyperventilating. Carry on, Legionnaires.

[Doctor Hmmm?]

Wandering Sensei: Moderator Man said:

This movie was definitely in second place in the Marvel Cinematic world. As a guy who really loves Iron Man and Iron Man III, this was tough, but I still hold that it's true.

Exactly my feeling ... except for this. 

I would put this up there with Avengers for a tie.  They're two very different types of movies, and each one is superb at being what it's trying to be.  Avengers had the "Wow, I can't believe I'm actually seeing this!" factor.  CA:TWS had weight -- Clark (I think) mentioned that Redford gave it gravitas, which is a really nice way of putting it.  This move took on real issues, something that Cap has done before, and treated them in a serious, adult way (albeit in the context of a world where superheroes exist).

And, at the risk of beating a dead horse, I have to praise Chris Evans again.  In a movie full of great performances, he still amazes me with his ability to play one of the hardest roles for an actor -- a square-jawed, humble, un-ironic, nice guy hero -- and make him believable and exactly what Cap ought to be, the unquestioned moral center the story and the guy everyone just naturally looks to as the leader.  That "Captain's orders" line just kills me, because it says everything about his ability to inspire the people around him.

[ClarkKent_DC]

Doctor Hmmm? said:

I would put this up there with Avengers for a tie.  They're two very different types of movies, and each one is superb at being what it's trying to be.  Avengers had the "Wow, I can't believe I'm actually seeing this!" factor.  CA:TWS had weight -- Clark (I think) mentioned that Redford gave it gravitas, which is a really nice way of putting it.  This move took on real issues, something that Cap has done before, and treated them in a serious, adult way (albeit in the context of a world where superheroes exist).

Vulture.com speaks to scriptwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely ("Spoiler Bomb:  All of Captain America: The Winter Soldier's Big Twists Explained"), and here's what McFeely had to say about working with Robert Redford:

There are certain lines that, when you hear them come out of people's mouths, you get kind of giddy: "We're really doing a comic book and making it real!" Especially with Redford, because Redford does not say any lines he doesn't want to say, and wisely so. He's been doing this for so long that he would come to the directors or come to us and say, "You don't need these three lines, because once I've said these other lines, you'll see the rest of them in my face." And it's absolutely true. Sometimes you write for a much worse actor than you get. [Laughs.] If a guy like Redford wants to say, "Hail HYDRA," then it's just like, hell yes.

[ClarkKent_DC]

On the other hand ... 

Doctor Hmmm? said:

And, at the risk of beating a dead horse, I have to praise Chris Evans again.  In a movie full of great performances, he still amazes me with his ability to play one of the hardest roles for an actor -- a square-jawed, humble, un-ironic, nice guy hero -- and make him believable and exactly what Cap ought to be, the unquestioned moral center the story and the guy everyone just naturally looks to as the leader.  That "Captain's orders" line just kills me, because it says everything about his ability to inspire the people around him.

... another writer at Vulture.com offers this view of Captain America, the character: "Why Captain America Is Only Interesting If He's a Prick." Your humble Legionnaire felt compelled to respond in the comments section.

[Mark S. Ogilvie]

Lot of pop-ups on that page.  Sort of reminds me of a conversation I had with my LCS guy about Mary Marvel and how I missed a nice, sweet kind girl in comics and he said there was no way that character would sell.

[Philip Portelli]

That was one aspect missing from The Avengers: Cap's leadership role and his leadership qualities. One man giving orders to beings far more powerful than him and them listening!

But they seem to be pushing Tony Stark for that since he's wittier (and played by a better known actor).

[Mark S. Ogilvie]

I thought Cap took control quite in the Avengers, at least once the battle started. Until then he and Tony were adversarial because I think the Tony Stark in the movies has just the right sort of 'nothing matters, everything's a joke' attitude that would drive a man like Steve crazy. Steve was a soldier and he expected everyone in the Avengers to be soldiers.