I'm fairly familiar with the Onslaught storyline leading up to HR, thanks to the early issues of Thunderbolts. I know that after Onslaught, the Avengers and the FF were believed dead, though they of course were not. I know that Marvel restarted Captain America, Iron Man, Avengers and Fantastic Four with new number 1's in late 1996, and that the four titles were "farmed out" to Image guys who were former Marvel stars. My questions:
1. How big a shock were these four relaunches at the time? Today it would be seen as no big deal, but I'm guessing back then it was surprising. I've heard the comment about Mark Waid having the rug pulled out from under him, was it really that sudden?
2. Were the sales of these four titles really bad before the relaunches? I've browsed the covers and can't get over how ugly I find Cap and Avengers (FF and IM not so much). I've seen that three titles all had the same writer for years - Gruenwald on Cap, Harras on Avengers, Defalco on FF, so was there an evident rut these titles were in? Add Terry Kavanaugh on IM, and you have four men who I think of as editors first, and I've heard the comment before about editors handing out assignments to their pals and each other.
3. Did the relaunches sell well? I've read they were considered a modest success, a runaway success, a sales disappointment, depending on what I'm reading.
4. Did you, as a reader, enjoy the relaunches? I've heard good things about Jim Lee"s FF, but little else.
5. Were the relaunches intended to be only 12 issues all along, or did plans change partway through? And yes, I know each series had a 13th issue, all written (I think) by James Robinson.
6. Did the heroes really have no prior memory of Earth-616?
7. How was there a Hulk in both the regular MU and the HR universe?
OK, that's plenty for now. Thanks in advance!
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At the start, the heroes didn't remember the 616 universe. I don't know if that changed.
From what I recall, it was pretty sudden -- or seemed that way. It's possible that negotiations with Lee and Liefeld were underway for a while, but they were kept secret from the current teams on the book. Waid's Captain America was the only one I was reading at the time, I think, and I had no interest in following Cap over into Liefeldville.
I don't know the in-story reasons for the Hulk being in both universes, but behind the scenes it's my understanding that Peter David's Hulk run was simply too popular to cancel -- especially since they weren't actually going to be going to be replacing it with an HR Hulk book. So they finagled a way to keep Hulk in both universes. IIRC, the Hulk got "savage" in the main Marvel U. book aroun that time -- that might have had something to do with it.
And despite the very limited interest I had in Heroes Reborn, Heroes Return worked on me like Coke Classic. I picked up all the returned books for a little while, on the strength of their creative teams. (Dropped Claremont's FF pretty quickly, though. Odd, considering they're my favorite Marvel characters, and yet Busiek was propelling me through Iron Man, whom I've never had much affinity for.)
Or something like that.
At the time, I was happily reading Captain America and The Incredible Hulk and not-so-happily reading The Avengers, which was had recently concluded an interminably long storyline called "The Crossing." The upshot of that story was that Iron Man was Kang's sleeper agent, and undoing the damage caused when Iron Man was activated (including, but not limited to, killing Marilla and the Rita deMara Yellowjacket) called for a teenage Tony Stark to be brought to the present to take the place of the adult Stark. After that were a few unmemorable tales just before "Heroes Reborn" launched.
The Hulk, as I recall, was chugging along contentedly, but Captain America, under Mark Waid and Ron Garney, was a thing of wonder and a joy to behold. Sorry if Ron Garney wasn't your cup of tea, but Waid started off that run of Captain America with a bang: He had been framed for something or other, and as punishment, President B*ll Cl*nt*n did something that had never been done to Captain America before -- he was sent into exile. Waid also brought Cap's lady love, Agent 13, the erstwhile Sharon Carter, back to the book; she had been presumed long dead since the '70s. We learned that she was in deep double-secret undercover and spent years off the grid; said experiences made her quite bitter and, frankly, much too grouchy for me to understand why Cap ever put up with her. But I digress.
Other adventures followed, but it is fair to say that Mark Waid did have the rug puled out from under him. Likewise Peter David, who, after years of exploring Hulk's personalities (plural) and psyche, was not pleased with the company directive to return the book to Big, Green and Stupid Hulk.
Sales? Somebody else will have to answer sales. I suppose they must have been bad enough to justify this desperation move, but I don't know. As for sales of the relaunched books, again, I don't have any numbers; my understanding was that the buzz brought in more than enough people curious about the hoopla to offset the people like me who held their noses and ran, but that none of the books sustained the higher sales the longer the year went on. But I truly don't know.
Did I, as a reader, enjoy the relaunches? To this day, I haven't read more than the first issue of the reborn Captain America, which was frequently, robustly, and justifiably ridiculed for its stunningly bizarre anatomy and lapses in perspective and proportion. And changing the emblem on Captain America's mask to a little eagle didn't help matters.
Oh, and how was there a Hulk in both the regular Marvel Universe and the "Heroes Reborn" Universe? If I recall correctly, I think it was a compromise to keep Peter David from bolting.
And, truly, I quit Marvel for the entire year "Heroes Reborn" was in play.
For all of Rob Liefeld's many crimes against art and puppies and all that is good, I just don't understand the backlash this particular change got. An eagle emblem actually does represent America better than a capital A. Does anyone have a problem with it other than that it was a break with tradition?
I think an eagle forehead motif is a better idea than an A, but it could be held Cap shouldn't have one, as his mask already incorporates a wings motif via its side wings. Otherwise, when two characters are similar I'd rather they weren't further assimilated, and Fighting American's mask has an eagle.
But these points don't matter that much to me. I don't think use of Liefeld's design would interfere with my enjoyment of a story.
SHIELD always has dodginess about it, especially the more its removed from the MU proper.
That's my take, but I may have made it up, and as a theory it is rather reliant on Liefield thinking more than 2 issues ahead in his plotting, which admittedly stretches its credibility.
Figserello said:
Thanks for the explanation, guys!
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