So I was recently reminded of a late 1950s team of heroes that were, like many others of the era, a foursome. Which team it was is unimportant, but what I want to talk about is what it got me thinking about.
To wit: There were a lot of late 1950s/early '60s comic book teams that were a foursome. And I'm curious as to why
Here are the ones off the top of my head:
1957
Challengers of the Unknown (created by Jack Kirby): The team consisted of pilot Kyle "Ace" Morgan, wrestler Lester "Rocky" Davis, scientist and scuba diver Walter "Prof" Haley and daredevil Matthew "Red" Ryan.
1959
Rip Hunter (Jack Miller & Ruben Moreira). The team consists of scientist Rip Hunter, his friend Jeff Smith, girlfriend Bonnie Baxter and Bonnie's kid brother Corky.
Suicide Squad (Robert Kanigher, Ross Andru & Mike Esposito). The team consisted of Rick Flag Jr., his girlfriend Karen Grace, Dr. Hugh Evans and Jess Bright.
1960
Sea Devils (Kanigher & Russ Heath). The team consisted of leader Dane Dorrance, Biff Bailey, Judy Walton (Dane's girlfriend), and Nicky Walton (Judy's younger brother).
Cave Carson (Frances Herron & Bruno Premiani). The team consisted of geologist and spelunker Professor Calvin "Cave" Carson, and his friends Bulldozer Smith, Johnny Blake and Christie Madison.
1961
Fantastic Four (Jack Kirby & Stan Lee; 1961). The team consists of scientist Reed Richards, his friend Ben Grimm, girlfriend Sue Storm and Sue's kid brother Johnny.
That's just at Marvel and DC, and I'm aware of these characters thanks to reboots, reprints or continuing adventures. I don't recall any from non-Big Two publishers, because much of the 1950s is terra incognita to me. Especially the titles and characters from defunct publishers.
One of the interesting aspects of these teams is that they are so similar in construction. Most of them --Time Masters, Fantastic Four, Sea Devils -- consist of Leader, Strong Guy, Leader's Girlfriend and Girlfriend's Kid Brother. Cave Carson's Time Masters team varies only slightly in this regard, with Kid Brother not being related to Girlfriend, but still filling the same role (young, impetuous).
Suicide Squad varies further still. The team still includes Leader and Leader's Girlfriend, but varies the formula with the other two, who are cookie-cutter scientists that I never distinguished one from the other. They bear no resemblance to Strong Guy or Kid Brother.
In 1965, the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Squad would fall into the pattern as well, if you squint a little. Initially a five-man team in Tower Publishing's T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents, they were reduced to the familiar four when "Egghead" Andor was killed on their second mission. That left a team that looked like this:
Well, what do you know? They've got Leader, Strong Guy and Girlfriend. And if you squint, Weed can be Kid Brother, given his Jughead-like antics and attitude. Later Guy became Flash clone Lightning, reducing the squad to three, but for a shining moment, the formula was in place.
Strangely, the Challengers of the Unknown are the odd man out, the least beholden to the formula. I say "strangely," because many comics historians credit the success of Challengers in launching the four-member formula. But the Challengers is the team most at variance with the formula they were credited with creating! The team had Strong Guy (Rocky), and if you squint, impetuous Kid Brother (Red). But the Challengers split the Leader character into Leader ("Ace" Morgan) and Scientist "Prof" Haley), and there were no females on the "main" team at all, much less a Girlfriend.
Doubly interesting is in later stories in the original Challengers series and various revivals, the writers would almost invariably try to force the Challs into the standard foursome by sidelining a member (usually Prof) in favor of a Girlfriend type (either June Robbins or Corinna Stark).
I have no questions about why this would be so in Challs revivals, as Fantastic Four had cemented the formula in place in the early 1960s. Any foursome that mimics the makeup of the FF doesn't surprise me at all.
But what about beforehand? If Challengers created the formula, why did none of the teams supposedly inspired by it use the the Challenger foursome? If Stan Lee swiped Kirby's formula for Fantastic Four, as some fans claim, why do the FF resemble Time Masters and Sea Devils more than the Challengers?
It makes me wonder if there wasn't some cultural touchstone that preceded all of them. Maybe in Golden Age comics or pulps, or maybe in movies or early television. I can't think of any, but I am by no means an expert in those areas.
Or maybe Challengers was pure inspiration -- but being all Kirby, it was muy macho and didn't include love interests, since most of his work didn't. But writers from Kanigher to Lee, being pure writers, knew that including such a dynamic made for better stories, and broke Kirby's blueprint to do so.
Or maybe it's something I haven't thought of. Ideas, Legionnaires? Comments? Favorites? Anyone care for a mint?
Replies
Cap, you may want to fix this boo boo:
Fantastic Four (Jack Kirby & Stan Lee; 1961). The team consists of scientist Reed Richards, his friend Ben Grimm, girlfriend Sue Storm and Bonnie's kid brother Johnny.
Done, and thanks. Amusingly, you're helping me make my point, because the reason for that error is that I didn't write the FF description -- I just copied the Time Masters description and changed the names. (And missed one.) That's how similar they are.
Now I'm imagining a distaff FF: "Red" Richards, Jen Grimm, Hugh Storm and his kid sister Bonnie.
I always saw the similarities between the FF and the Challengers, and vaguely saw it in the T.H.U.N.D.E.R Squad. I never read the other series you are comparing.
Two things...
First, I remember Roy Thomas commenting in one of his introductions to MMW Avengers that Stan's idea for the ideal number of team members was five (and hie imposed that limit when Thomas was writing Avengers and Lee was editing).
Second, there was once an article in The Jack Kirby Collector which compared the plots of various issues of Fantastic Four to those of Challengers of the Unknown. the similarities are striking (presented in a grid IIRC), adding fuel to the "Who created what?" controversy.
So what does that prove? I don't know. You asked for comments. Mint?
A few famous foursome predating the Challengers
No idea as to why the formula exists, but you could probably add Cap's Kooky Quartet to that list. I'd be hard pressed to decide who the strong man was on that team though.
Maybe it's intended to be a four elements reflection. Most likely there's a precedent we're not thinking of (as Cap touched upon) that made that team construction popular. Maybe someone was racking their brains for ideas, saw four mints and said "Eureka".
Lost in Space used a variation of the formula, with Leader (John Robinson), Girlfriend (June Robinson, actually his wife), Strong Guy (Major West, who isn't particularly strong, but is Leader's best friend, as the formula dictates) and Kid Brother (Will Robinson, actually Girlfriend's son). Judy and Penny are, as usual, superfluous. Although I guess the argument could be made that they are also Kid Brother, in that their juvenile behavior sometimes gets the team in trouble and launches the plot, which is the Kid Brother niche.
Swiss Family Robinson, on which Lost in Space is based, is similar, with a Leader (the father), Girlfriend (the wife), Strong Guy (oldest son Fritz) and Kid Brother (all the other kids, constantly getting in trouble). That goes all the way back to 1812.
Randy Jackson: "Maybe someone was racking their brains for ideas, saw four mints and said 'Eureka.'"
I want to hear more about the Four Mint Theory. It may explain everything!
Jeff: First, I remember Roy Thomas commenting in one of his introductions to MMW Avengers that Stan's idea for the ideal number of team members was five.
This is maybe the first time my memory is more accurate than yours, Jeff -- I remembered Roy writing that Stan thought the ideal number of members for a team book was four. To make sure I remembered a'right, I looked it up. It's in the foreword to Marvel Masterworks: Avengers Vol. 4.
Dave Palmer: "And this one comes closest to the standard 'formula.'"
This refers to Wizard of Oz, and yes, I can see that now. Was that foursome in the book as well?
"This is maybe the first time my memory is more accurate than yours, Jeff"
Oh, please. You flatter me. Let me look it up, though.
Huh. You're right.
Roy Thomas said, "Stan, it seemed to me, had decided that the ideal number of heroes in a group was four--as in 'Fantastic Four'." He goes on to say, "I myself had always felt the ideal number of members in a super-hero group was seven--mainly because that's how many heroes DC's Justice Society of America had had when I was growing up," Later still he says, "If I couldn't have Thor and Iron Man back, at least I could get the Avengers roster up to six--which was closer to my own magic number of seven members."
That's definitely the introduction I was (mis)remembering. I thought Thomas had commented on the irony that the man who co-created the Fantastic Four thought the optimal number was five (like the X-Men). I remembered that Lee and Thomas butted heads somewhat over the number of members on the roster, but I misremembered that he was building from four, not five.
Mea culpa.
Captain Comics said:
Lost in Space used a variation of the formula, with Leader (John Robinson), Girlfriend (June Robinson, actually his wife), Strong Guy (Major West, who isn't particularly strong, but is Leader's best friend, as the formula dictates) and Kid Brother (Will Robinson, actually Girlfriend's son). Judy and Penny are, as usual, superfluous. Although I guess the argument could be made that they are also Kid Brother, in that their juvenile behavior sometimes gets the team in trouble and launches the plot, which is the Kid Brother niche.
I had always been curious about the Gold Key/Western series Space Family Robinson which, with its fifteenth issue, changed its name to Space Family Robinson Lost in Space. I never read it, but from what I see on GCD it seems that the characters are different from the TV show.
The Wikipedia listing for Space Family Robinson says:
“In 1965, when Irwin Allen produced the prime-time television show Lost in Space, Gold Key's publishers noticed the similarities between comic book and the show. They considered filing suit, but decided against it, as Gold Key was also publishing an Irwin Allen title, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. The two companies reached an agreement that the comic could change its cover title to Space Family Robinson: Lost in Space. The new title appeared starting with issue #15 (Jan 1966).”
I remembered Roy writing that Stan thought the ideal number of members for a team book was four.
I don’t know if Stan said this, but I think having more than four or five characters often (or usually) results in characters having nothing to do or say.
-
1
-
2
-
3
-
4
of 4 Next