Flash had its season premiere last night! Spoilers are to be expected in this thread, but I'll put in a picture of Flash traveling through time to give people a chance to turn back. 

OK, everyone up to speed? Good.

I have mixed feelings about this season premiere. The good: Flashpoint was over and done with quickly. We got a glimpse of the universe -- which was honestly a pretty good status quo for everyone but Joe, up until Wally died (even Caitlyn, who wasn't living up to her genius potential, seemed happy) -- but Barry feels so much guilt for the way things turned out that he asks Reverse Flash to go back in time to kill his mother again. On an emotional level, I just don't buy it. She's his mother, and the Flashpoint world was pretty good. I'm not sure the stakes were dire enough for him to allow her to be killed again. The world wasn't ending -- he was just going to lose his memories of the original reality. Going back on that seems to pile a selfish choice on top of his original selfish choice to save his mom. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if at some later point his mom steps out of time and becomes one of his greatest villains, just because she's tired of her moment of greatest pain being used as some cosmic pivot point for reality. 

But on the plus side, this happened in just one episode, and now the rest of the season (and whatever wrinkles to old relationships it brings) can begin. I can't wait to see what Welles is like *this* season! 

On the minus side, everything Barry said or did was creepy, from his pursuit of Iris to his weird goodbye to his parents. I wish the writers had found a way for him to say goodbye in a way that was meaningful for him, but didn't leave them thinking he was about to jump off a bridge. 

Another minus -- Henry's still dead when Flashpoint ends -- though that's mitigated by Shipp playing Jay Garrick from now on.

Third minus: Once again, we have a speed villain -- and one who's "terrorizing Central City to prove that he's the fastest." That's the flimsiest motivation I've ever heard. Hasn't the guy ever heard of the Boston Marathon?

Plus: Next week is Dr. Alchemy -- an old favorite from the comics, and someone who's NOT a speedster! I'm very happy about that. 

Line of the night? Hands down, it's gotta be: "Am I kidnapped?" "That's undecided."

What'd you guys think?

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Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

Boy, they just  can't stick the landing, can they?

Up to the last 5 minutes, it was going so well...

Yeah ... I wished they could have let us enjoy the bittersweet happy ending, instead of foisting an unnecessary cliffhanger on us. 

Richard Willis said:

I enjoy the various Welles incarnations. It has to be a lot of fun for Tom Cavanagh to play the different personalities.


I saw an article today in which Tom Cavanaugh estimated he's done a couple dozen versions of Welles, including three or four "primary" versions.

A couple things nobody's brought up: I like how Caitlin decided not to take Julian's cure, instead trying to figure out her place in the world. 

And, I like how Iris was the one who saved Barry, by busting two well-placed caps into Savitar's back. They really haven't done enough with Candice Patton this season. Half the time, I was figuring Iris's name wasn't on that newspaper article because she doesn't work there any more! When was the last time we saw her on the job?

But Patton brings the most out of what little she gets to do -- like when H.R. used the transmogrifier to look like Iris, but you still knew it was him because of his body language and the way he chewed his gum. Here's hoping she gets out of being just the damsel in distress next season.

I must have zoned out. I don't remember the earlier transmogrifier appearance.

It was a couple episodes earlier, when Barry and Snart broke into ARGUS and stole the Dominator power source. He changed into Lyla, and I said, "Verrrrrry interesting."

I enjoy the various Welles incarnations. It has to be a lot of fun for Tom Cavanagh to play the different personalities.

The range of personalities is a hoot This year's had to walk a fine line between having a fresh perspective and being a clown, and he did pretty well and got better as the season went. I hope Harry's back and has gained a little humanity, which might make him something like Season 1's pretend-Wells. I wonder if he had any idea what the role would be when he signed up?

They can still have a Big Bad but three episodes would be enough.

The concept is to have an on-going threat all season, but they either need to dial it back so it only shows up every few episodes or create more of a purpose--gathering different artifacts, progressing through a series of deeds, etc. Otherwise, the useless battles where nobody gains a benefit are just wasting time, especially because the heroes look so foolish for not creating a strategy, even if it fails. Gritting teeth and rushing headlong at the guy isn't a strategy.

If they try another speedster or time-traveler I'm afraid they'll lose a lot of viewers.

I hope they realize we all feel that way. There are many things that can challenge Barry that aren't faster than him. I always Captain Cold was his arch enemy, because Flash deals in fast molecules and Cap deals in slow molecules. Losing Snart and Rory was a big loss, but they can always come back. Yeah, I know Snart's dead somwhere.

-- MSA


Nobody's dead forever for a time traveler! P.S. -- what was Snart doing at the Tunguska event? Did that happen in "Legends"?

Like others, I was disappointed that a (relatively) happy ending was spoiled by a downbeat cliffhanger. But (again) everything is relative.

Oliver Queen wishes he had Barry's problems right now.

Welllll, just to be clear, Barry sacrificed himself and left this plane of existence, never to be seen again. Sob. So all things considered, Ollie is doing okay.

-- MSA

My biggest question is: Were they DELIBERATELY planting red herring clues that HR would turn out to be Abra Kadabra? Allways carrying a single drumstick, like a wand... the wand-like design of his transmogrifier ... the fact that he knew some sleight of hand "from a magician I met once"... the fact that he was conspicuously absent for most of the Abra Kadabra episode (but makes a point of showing up after Kadabra was in custody and we were shown him being taken to Earth 19)...the fact that he constantly seeks acclaim. 

Some of those are general character traits, but some of those are remarkably on point. I have a hard time believing that it all was a complete coincidence. Maybe it was a plan that was later abandoned? Or maybe it was deliberate misdirection for hardcore fanboys like me.

Then again, misdirection is the primary tool of a magician... hmmmm....

You know, I've wondered every time they've raced to Zoom's hidden room to look at the "Crisis" newspaper, why nobody is concerned that Flash disappears in 2024. That puts a limit on his happiness with Iris, doesn't it? And isn't he worried that he might die in seven years?

They usually have more to worry about than what happens in seven years (which they can't do much about anyway). And as we keep seeing, "disappearing" is a temporary thing under the worst of conditions. I did notice that they had Iris being stabbed by Savitar on May 23, which is when it happened. So I'm sure they've got the plot all figured out for when 2024 gets here.

BTW, some of my FBFs are speculating that they sent Barry into the Speed Force for a good long time so he won't compete with the movie version, and Wally will be the focus for awhile in the fall. I find that hard to swallow.

-- MSA

Not to mention the fact that if Barry disappears in 2024, that means he'll be coming back at some point before then.

So far it looks like Flash will be a minor character in the Justice League movie, IMO. As successful as the TV version has been it's hard to believe they'd screw that up.

Richard Willis said:

So far it looks like Flash will be a minor character in the Justice League movie, IMO. As successful as the TV version has been it's hard to believe they'd screw that up.

Movies are movies. TV is TV. Accordingly, it's easy for me to believe they'd screw that up.

Case in point: the current movie Superman and the TV Superman on Supergirl.

"Not to mention the fact that if Barry disappears in 2024, that means he'll be coming back at some point before then."

They ought to go check the headline now.

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