Just watched The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey and I got a question: Had Count Dracula Count Dooku Saruman gone over to the Dark Side by this point in the story, or was he still effectively a goodie here?
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Saruman was still perceived as a good guy during the events of the Hobbit. He was even put in charge of the White Council ahead of Gandalf, Elrond or Galadriel. However, after Saruman is revealed as evil in the Lord of the Rings, Gandalf looks back on earlier events and realizes that Saruman had been working to undermine their efforts for some time. They had viewed him as cautious, when he was actually being devious. Saruman likely approved of the assault on the Necromancer's Tower (which should take place in the second or third movie) as a way to keep everyone else distracted while he looked for the Ring. If he appears in The Hobbit movies, I would expect him to be calculating and duplicitous, but not yet outright villainous.
Also, most of the events involving the White Council and the Necromancer took place at the same time as The Hobbit but weren't depicted in the original novel except tangentially. They were mentioned as reasons for Gandalf's absences and then fleshed out in other sources and appendices. Jackson is reputedly using those other sources to flesh out The Hobbit and make it more epic. Besides, who doesn't want more Gandalf and Radagast?
Aren't there any guidelines for the use of SPOILERS when revealing hidden motivations and plot developments in LOTR?
At this point in the books' and movies' life-cycle, I think you have to assume there'll be spoilers discussed freely unless specifically marked otherwise upthread. I mean, even the *question* is a spoiler.
No one doubts Saruman's intentions during the time of The Hobbit though Gandalf doesn't look thrilled to see him. Later, readers learn that Galadriel, Lady of Light wanted Gandalf to lead the White Council but he didn't want to be tied down in one location.
The movie does imply that there are strong feelings between the Gray Wanderer and the Elf Queen.
One of the biggest changes in the movie is the character of Thorin Oakenshield from pompous, bellicose, greedy though brave and determined to dark, brooding, suspicious, stubborn, bitter though still brave and determined would-be King-Under-The-Mountain.
OK, thanks for the info, gents, it is much appreciated. Kirk makes a good point, I was basically assuming that this was one of those stories where "everybody knows how it goes", but perhaps that was an unwarranted assumption - after all, I knew someone who was surprised by the ending of the Peter Jackson King Kong, and I would've thought that everyone in the English-speaking world knew how that story ended. So, what's the consensus - ought I to go back and put "spoilers" in the thread title?
I'm about as spoiler-conscious as anyone but with the Lord of the Rings we're talking about a movie that came out 10 years ago and a book that's 60 years old. If someone didn't want to be spoiled about specific plot points, they had plenty of opportunity to watch the movies or read the book before now. The general rule of thumb on this site used to be that a spoiler warning was no longer necessary if a tpb or dvd had been out for about a year.
Baron, it's up to you if you want to put in a "possible spoilers" header on your thread, but I don't think it's necessary.
I agree with Chris on this one about spoilers. Just by reading the title I figured it was going to be some question about the stories which would have some sort of spoilers in it. Like Chris said the first movie is a decade old and the books way older.
OK, thanks, gents. I try to always stay open to correction. Since it'll be awhile before the new pictures come out, I've got a hankering to go back and re-watch the first trilogy, possibly even re-read the books, maybe even try some of the books I haven't read.
Besides, who doesn't want more Gandalf and Radagast?
I was particularly amused at Jackson's choice of actor to play Radagast - apparently he and I have more than one fandom in common...
I'm re-reading them right now. I'm in the middle of The Two Towers. I should get to the scene in which Gandalf, Theoden and company confront Saruman some time tonight. I'll probably watch the movies again when I'm done.
The Baron said:
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